Devin Townsend Names the Theme That Ties His Current Works Together

On the surface, an operatic orchestral album, a commercial rock record and a more abstract experimental offering may seem far apart, but Devin Townsend tells Full Metal Jackie that there is a theme that’s tying all his current work together – that’s change.

Townsend has issued his PowerNerd record, is preparing for a massive undertaking with a live performance of his orchestral opera The Moth and has another more abstract offering called Axolotl in the works, but he says that each album has allowed him to pursue ideas on the concept of change through different vantage points.

“I think as we get older, the state of the world is just so chaotic that I think the ideas of mortality become more and more prevalent. Trying to quantify that in a way that is understandable to the parts of me that are afraid of these processes is what this period of work entails,” he shared.

“On a couple of occasions in my career I’ve had a period that yields significant amounts of music that are presented in different formats. And this is another example of that,” revealed the prolific musician.

READ MORE: 33 of the Most Prolific Rock + Metal Artists of the 21st Century

Elsewhere in the chat, Townsend details one of his more challenging creative experiences in putting the PowerNerd album together and what he loves about the art of creation.

He also speaks about his new “Overexposed and Underdeveloped” photo book, shares his ’90s musical inspirations and reflects on his favorite touring cycle of his career.

Check out more of the chat below.

It’s Full Metal Jackie, and this week on the show, we have the perpetually productive and forever rockin’ Devin Townsend joining us. Devin is promoting his new album, PowerNerd, as well as his “Overexposed + Underdeveloped” book, on top of a few other projects.

As someone who seemingly always has something in the works, Devin, what is it about the art of creation that you enjoy the most and is the moment of putting the final touches on an album the cherry on top or more bittersweet, knowing that this portion is coming to the end?

I think it’s both. I think that the compulsion to create for me basically comes from when I was younger, I don’t know if I ever was able to express myself in the ways that I thought were appropriate for someone who was predisposed to the type of sensitivity that I clearly have.

But I found that from a very young age music was a loophole in that regard. So the things that were perhaps uncouth in basic life became sort of celebrated if you did it through music. As a result of that, everything kind of got hardwired to that.

Throughout my life, music has become this outlet for me to express things that I found that I maybe am not able to as a person. I also feel that with that though, there’s a certain amount of work that goes into progressing to the point where that’s not the case. It’s not like you’re condemned to only being able to express yourself through music. The process of creating these things has allowed me to become more fluent in that language in other parts of my life.

At the end of a process, the final cherry on top of the record, I prefer to go with the quote that I heard about producing, which is, a record is never done. You just have to abandon it at some point. And with that in mind, the end of it is a combination of three or four things – fear, pride and probably regret for it not being perfect.

Devin Townsend, “PowerNerd”

Devin, it’s interesting how an album can take a turn. You’ve talked about PowerNerd starting off as this fun rock record. But behind the scenes, you were going through great personal loss and grief, which ultimately impacted how this turned out. This feels like a process like no other in your career. When you’re going through something like you’ve gone through, is it a struggle to separate when to lean into the initial idea of fun, and when you’ve got to let what you’re feeling take over? Where do you find that balance?

First of all, you’re very good at questions. Thank you for being thoughtful. I think that the  priority for me in any project that I choose to invest myself in is whether or not it’s authentic to where I’m at. I feel that the work that goes into actualizing material at this point is so comprehensive that unless it’s something that I truly feel is important to me, the work is typically just not worth it.

So when you find yourself in a position where you’ve got a project that maybe in its inception was a certain thing, but circumstance leads you to other experiences in life, then the result of that is you just have to be open to the idea of modifying the work so that it stays true to where you’re at. Otherwise, the authenticity, which is essentially the only criteria for it being releasable to me, is not met.

So I found with this record, a lot of the struggle became just trying to put the words for the experience that we had gone through onto a type of music that was in some senses, kind of diametrically opposed to that experience, right?! To have the sadness or grief or loss be expressed through a vehicle of more uptempo, simple music was a challenge, I have to admit. But I think we got through it.

Devin Townsend, “Jainism”

Devin, one of the great songs on this album is “Jainism.” I love that there’s a nod in here to one of the great and underappreciated rock singers and songwriters, Ginger Wildheart. You’ve discussed the song coming from your connection to music in the ’90s. Let’s go down that path. Who was Devin listening to in the ’90s? And who from that era were your favorite songwriters?

I guess it depends on which part of the 90s, but I think that if I looked at it in an overarching way, it would be the album by the Old Lady Drivers called Formula, Only Heaven and Second Nature by the Young Gods, Domination by Morbid Angel, Killjoy by Shihad, Darker by Light by Rapoon.

I listened to Fear Factory back then and Carcass, Vader and I think the 90s were the time where I started to recognize that my interest in loop-based music was starting to become more prevalent in my creative process. That was probably brought on by the Old Lady Drivers record.

But I think that if I was to summarize my listening in the ’90s, I would say it would come down to Darker by Light by Rapoon, Formula by Old Lady Drivers, and probably Second Nature by the Young Gods.

Old Lady Drivers, “Last Look”

Devin, PowerNerd came together very quickly and is essentially kicking off a four-part arc for you. Given that these are tied by the era in which they were created and what’s going on in your life, does this become like a puzzle in trying to tell a story or have a theme? And do the other albums impact what you want from PowerNerd and perhaps what’s held out for something else?

Yeah, the basic theme for this entire process, which includes PowerNerd, The Moth, a record called Axolotl, and this sort of project called the Ruby Quaker, so it’s essentially like another version of the Devin Townsend project 15 years later, but the theme that ties it all together is that of change.

I tried to utilize each one of these aesthetics, whether or not it’s the opera, sort of orchestral, chaotic metal thing of The Moth or the more straight ahead commercial ideas behind PowerNerd or the very abstract things in Axolotl, to sort of reflect on that concept from different vantage points.

I think as we get older, the state of the world is just so chaotic that I think the ideas of mortality become more and more prevalent. Trying to quantify that in a way that is understandable to the parts of me that are afraid of these processes is what this period of work entails.

It seems to be that what happens when I start writing is if a theme is engaging enough for me to present itself in various different ways, I just keep writing and then populating the folders on my desktop with music that sounds like each album. So I have a folder that’s for more straight ahead things, a folder for complicated orchestral things, one for meditative things and one for abstract things.

Once each one of those folders is populated enough that you can extrapolate a theme and an aesthetic from each one of them, then I start putting it together. And on a couple of occasions in my career I’ve had a period that yields significant amounts of music that are presented in different formats. And this is another example of that.

Devin, one other part of what you have is The Moth. I know this has been in the works for a long time and you’re going to celebrate it with a one-off show with a symphony orchestra. How big of an undertaking is this for you and what does it mean to finally be able to bring this to an audience for the first time?

It’s an enormous undertaking. Just the logistics of it alone are so monstrous really that the music becomes something that you just need to finish quickly so you can get on to the organization of all these moving parts. Fortunately, I’ve been working on it for in and around a decade. Maybe not consistently, but enough that the concept has been brewing.

But you look at things that I would have never considered. It’s actually two shows in the Netherlands now, but for example it’s 100 person orchestra, 60 person choir, the band and you. I found that I didn’t take into consideration things that could potentially become a problem that you would have never have considered.

For example, like who rents 200 chairs? Is it the orchestra? Is it us? And so we got an offer from another symphony at one point they wanted to do a tour. But then the problem with that of course is who’s paying for 200 hotel rooms every night. It’s the process of just trying to work it out.

I’ve got orchestrators, choral directors, I’ve got the band, I’ve got musicians that are collaborating with me. I’ve got artists, I’ve got storyboards, animators, production, the flights to get to where we’re going to be tracking it, the personnel that are going to be taking care of the logistics for the band themselves because we’ve also got a conductor and who makes the click track. The process is endless.

Although I have enthusiasm for those aspects of it, because of the novelty, I think that it’s mostly driven by a desire when I was a young person to one day make some sort of opera-slash-musical. And I keep trying to check off all these life goals on my list. The Moth is another example of that.

Last thing I would say about it is, as much as it sounds like the logistics of this make The Moth appear as if it is heads and tails more impressive or important than anything else that I’ve done, frankly, it’s just another thing on the path. This one’s a big one, though.

It seems like you’re always picking stuff that’s just not straightforward and easy.

It’s not to be provocative though, I swear. I think it’s the ideas dictate the workload. So if there’s anything that I’m proud of as a creator is I have a strong work ethic. And if the vision that has presented itself to me is compelling enough for me to want to pursue, my personality is such that I will find a solution regardless of how. How professional that solution or the intent is, is more important than any of it.

It’s Full Metal Jackie. Devin Townsend is with us. Devin, you’ve also got this “Overexposed + Underdeveloped” book as well. You’re a busy guy capturing photos from throughout the years. Some photos may have a more personal meaning to you than others. Is there one photo in particular that you’re excited to get in here because it allows you to share this special moment with an audience?

I had to solicit photos from friends, my mother, people close to me in my life. And each one of those photos needed to have a description, an explanation, timestamp, all these sorts of things. And as someone who very rarely thinks about the past, I found it exceptionally difficult to participate with some of these things from the past.

It’s not because I feel embarrassed or ashamed. I don’t know about you, but I rarely look at myself in the mirror. So my self image is based on something that is this internal sense of who I am, personality wise. And so whenever I see images of myself, I’m like, “Oh, it’s that guy.”

Of the photos that are in there, I don’t even know if the one that got in there made it to it, although I know I sent it in, but it was one that I took when we did The Tonight Show where I stuck the green room phone up my ass. I remember thinking at the time as a 22-year-old, “Oh, this is completely appropriate. There’s nothing wrong with this at all.” And as a 53-year-old man now there’s a part of me that looks back and said, “Well, I’m glad I got to take a photo like that when I still had an ass.”

Devin, the book also takes a look at your own history. So now feels like a good time to ask with your wealth of projects over the years, if you had a favorite album and tour cycle. It doesn’t have to be this is my best album, but just your favorite because of what you went through to complete the album and what was going on in your life that made it a rewarding experience.

Each album that I do is meant to be a direct representation of the period of time in which I found myself, while it was being conceived. And as such none of the records really are better or worse than the other to me. There’s ones that I prefer, of course, because there’s certain times of my life I prefer.

But by articulating these things as honestly as I can, I feel that for the most part I’ve hit the marks that would define a record as a success to me. And that is whether or not it’s something like Physicist or something like Empath, or something like Lightwork or The Puzzle. Any of these projects are, in my opinion, very accurate representations of where I was at at that time.

The records that I like the most are more mostly because of the process. I found it engaging. Like, I love The Puzzle, I love Snuggles. That was a really creative boon for me. But in terms of a tour cycle that I think was something that I was most excited to do and most proud of, it was probably the Empath tour.

It was prior to the pandemic. I had 10 people out. We had backup singers, we had full visuals with LED walls and two buses and a semi, and all the shows sold out. It was really fantastic, really fantastic band, fantastic time. It was meant to continue, but then it went straight into the pandemic, and everything obviously changed.

I don’t necessarily regret any of the changes that the pandemic has brought to my work and the way that I present it, but more so, I’m very appreciative of the fact that at one time that actually did happen, and it was wonderful.

Thanks to Devin Townsend for the interview. The PowerNerd album is available through Devin’s website. You can also pick up Devin’s new ‘Overexposed + Underdeveloped’ photo book. Stay up to date with Devin through his Facebook, X, Instagram and Spotify accounts. Find out where you can hear Full Metal Jackie’s weekend radio show here