Hillary Clinton and Kamala Harris are two of the most powerful women in the United States. In a one-on-one conversation, they honored the woman who made their power, in many ways, at all possible: Ruth Bader Ginsburg.
Clinton, who was once projected to be the first woman president of the United States, and Harris, who is the next great hope for a woman in (or at least near) the White House, met at the height of debate season to memorialize Ginsburg on Clinton’s new podcast, You and Me Both, produced by iHeartMedia, which started streaming in late September. In a Glamour exclusive clip from an episode that will drop on Thursday, October 1, Harris takes a break from the campaign trail to sit with Clinton and reminisce about Ginsburg, the powerhouse juror and pop culture icon, who died on September 18 at 87 and was buried on September 29.
“I looked at that casket, Hillary, and she was such—in size—small,” Harris tells Clinton, with emotion in her voice. “And I looked at that casket, and there was, without any question, an inverse relationship between her size and her stature.”
“Oh, that’s great,” Clinton says. “That’s a great way to describe it.”
The two women—Harris is a senator and Clinton is a former senator and secretary of state—sound, in a nice way, like they’re raising a beer to the late Ginsburg. It’s moving to hear the women talk so intimately in a moment of profound transition—Harris storming toward the White House, Clinton accepting that her work may never take her back that way, and Ginsburg having become the first woman to ever lie in state at the Capitol.
“She did what you and I know is required of lawyers who are fighting for civil rights,” Harris says, mournfully, as Clinton “mm-hmms.”
“She built up a path for so many women, and she did it brick by brick, case by case,” Harris continues. “What a life well-lived.” (As a lawyer and founder of the ACLU Women’s Rights Project, Ginsburg used legal strategy to essentially build legal rights for women out of arguments—she argued and won five cases before the Supreme Court long before she earned a seat there herself.)
“She saw wrongs that she wanted to help rectify, and she was in pursuit of justice and equality, plain and simple, under the constitution,” Clinton says. “When I think of her, I think of her as a mighty warrior even though she was, as you say, a petite woman. But a woman with enormous energy and conviction.”
Part team eulogy, part kibitzing, part laugh session about the pains and stresses of the campaign trail—the conversation is one you just wish Ginsburg could have been part of as well.
You can listen to You and Me Both, which will feature Clinton in conversation with guests including Stacey Abrams, John Legend, Samin Nosrat, and Tan France, on Apple Podcasts, iHeartRadio, and all the other usual suspects in podcasting. No word yet on whether Tan and Hillary try on each other’s pantsuits.
Jenny Singer is a staff writer for Glamour. You can follow her on Twitter.
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